Awaiting Feedback Provo Mastery Buff vs. Other Masteries

[gbz]

Client used - If not applicable put N/A

7.0.97

Player Name - If not applicable put N/A

ceci

Location In-game - If not applicable put N/A

umbra

I've noticed that the Inspire buff wasn't being added to my SDI. Besides that, the actual damage wasn't receiving any bonuses either.



I've also heard that it's because I had the Death Ray buff active and the game only supports one mastery buff at a time. But if that's the case, why were the stat buffs from Invigorate (the other Provocation mastery buff) applied?

I don't know how it's supposed to work, but it seems rather detrimental to the Provocation skill that this buff doesn't stack with other masteries. The whole purpose of a support character is to give those bonuses to others... and if it means you can't use any other masteries, it seems a bit weird.

 

[Dan]

Were you using the spell Death Ray to judge the SDI increase? I noticed this from here: https://www.uoguide.com/Skill_Mastery

The mage focuses a death ray on their opponent which does damage based on magery skill, evaluating intelligence skill, and mastery level as long as the mage has mana and the target is in range. Death ray applies the energy damage type to the target. SDI is not considered when using death ray. Death ray damage is dramatically increased when an applicable super slayer or lesser slayer (preferred) spellbook is equipped in hand.

As far as why some are showing and some are not, it might just be a display issue that needs adjusting. Also, I believe, but would need to double check, that if a mastery was affecting SDI specifically, let's just say at 20%, and another skill mastery buff gave 21%, it would take and apply the highest value of the two, not combine them. The end result would be 21% not 41%.

Now, regarding Bard spells, the official rules clarify that bards with Provocation or Peacemaking mastery may run both of their songs together (e.g., Inspire + Invigorate, or Perseverance + Resilience). That exception is why you can see both stat buffs from Invigorate while Inspire’s also up. https://uo.com/wiki/ultima-online-wiki/skills/bardic-skills/bard-masteries/

 

[gbz]

I mentioned death ray because, theoretically, it annuls the provocation buff while active.

As for the SDI affecting the deathray, clearly the effects are considered. I tested it:

(164 sdi)


(210 sdi)

Death Ray itself is just a dmg spell. It doesnt give any sdi bonuses, but it keeps a "buff" while active - much like as a channelling mechanic;

Besides Death Ray, other spells like EBolt didn't change its dmg also with the provo buff.

As for both buffs being up (inspire+invigo), I don't think that's where the problem is. I was with my tammer in the same party with the buff - for the tamer, i saw the SDI increase + the stats. For my caster, only the sdi didn't apply, just the stats one.

 

[Majere]

I mentioned death ray because, theoretically, it annuls the provocation buff while active.

As for the SDI affecting the deathray, clearly the effects are considered for it is a spell. I tested it:
View attachment 5285
(164 sdi)

View attachment 5286
(210 sdi)

Death Ray itself is just a dmg spell. It doesnt give any sdi bonuses, but it keeps a "buff" while active - much like as a channelling mechanic;

Besides Death Ray, other spells like EBlast didn't change its dmg also with the provo buff.

As for both buffs being up (inspire+invigo), I don't think that's where the problem is. I was with my tammer in the same party with the buff - for the tamer, i saw the SDI increase + the stats. For my caster, only the sdi didn't apply, just the stats one.

Just wondering - I just started working on my bard, so I'm really interested in this topic. Have you checked any spells other than Death Ray for damage increases under the Bard Mastery SDI buff? As far as I know, Death Ray’s damage is based on the mastery level and Magery + Eval Int skills only.

 

[gbz]

Just wondering — I just started working on my bard, so I'm really interested in this topic. Have you checked any spells other than Death Ray for damage increases under the Bard Mastery SDI buff? As far as I know, Death Ray’s damage is based on the mastery level and Magery + Eval Int skills only.

As i said: Energy Bolt dmg also remained unchanged.

This and the fact that I saw the SDI increased on my tammer (+ the stats buff), tell me that something is cancelling the provo effect. Idk if it is the arcane empowerment or the actual death ray channelling or something else.

I was thinking about setting up provo on my tammer... but as it stands, i dont think the skill is as much useful as a buff if it has the effect cancel by other masteries.

 

[FireFly]

You not noticed buff from provo song in damage from ebolt but reason was death ray active.

Tested ebolt damage with arcane empowerment
241 sdi vs event boss 142-145 per hit

After my own bard provo buff (19sdi)
260sdi hits for 157-162
Once turning death ray my status no longer show SDI bonus and dmg went back to 142-145

But that also seems to be wrong
Death ray supposed to drop energy resist on target by 10 so damage from all energy type of spells should be also higher due to resistance changes

 

[gbz]

if that is the case, it really seems to not be working as intended

 

[Bob]

currently the bard setup is useful, a nerf might make other chr options more beneficial .
i recommend buffing the bard to make it more useful in parties not less helpful and replaced by another chr.

since we on the subject, bard buffs help pets and summons ect... too

bards are currently great, i recommend everyone add them to the party for buffs

Bard Masteries – Ultima Online

uo.com

 

[Bob]

 

[Dan]

So is SDI affecting death ray on Heritage?

 

[FireFly]

Description on buff said deal 221 damage (so i guess its pre resists damage)
145sdi hit for 157
195sdi hit for 187

Resists are correctly lowered by 10points

Tested on my cu right now.

But i dont think personally it is bad thing here.

There are only two meta builds
First is sampire
Second would be necro mage with or without taming

So sampire basicly have adventage in damage like talisman with slayers and in general do much more dps than casters.

Death ray with extra dmg from sdi at least give mages something still not equal but a little bit of power

 

[Bob]

and death ray in most cases is not useable due to interruptions and failed attempts taking mana

 

[FireFly]

Partially agree with this. Interruption happen only when you move or got hit by spell/meele and that part works as intended. +always can cast all regular spells while dmg ticks hit every 3second. But i would not let any of bard spellsongs give extra dmg/stats/regens to ANY kind of already used mastery no matter if its caster or dexxer build.
Masteries are based on real skills+mastery primer lvl think thats enough

 

[Bob]

naa , 2x all bard buff bonuses to any damage done
for 4x120 skill buffs

 

[Bob]

guess since we talking about it , might as well look at code:

double damage = (Caster.Skills[CastSkill].Base + Caster.Skills[DamageSkill].Base) * (GetMasteryLevel() * .8);
damage /= Target is PlayerMobile ? 5.15 : 2.5;
damage *= GetDamageScalar(Target);
int sdiBonus = SpellHelper.GetSpellDamageBonus(Caster, Target, CastSkill, Caster.Player && Target.Player);
damage *= (100 + sdiBonus);
damage /= 100;
SpellHelper.Damage(this, Target, (int)damage, 0, 0, 0, 0, 100);

TrueUO/Scripts/Spells/Skill Masteries/DeathRay.cs at master · TrueUO/TrueUO

https://discord.gg/5RtDbkY3fC. Contribute to TrueUO/TrueUO development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

 

[FireFly]

@Dan if we take off SDI damage from Death Ray is low enough to dont bother with having mage anymore.

Just tested with 0sdi pure skills+mastery(lvl2) bufficon show 153 dmg every 3second to "name of targeted mob"
And vs 61energy resist (71 before death ray applied that -10)
Dmg= 60hp every 3seconds

Not worth cast even on lvl 3 when buff show 230dmg every 3 second to "target"
Dmg=90 every 3second.

 

[Dan]

I don't plan on making any changes to death ray at this time. I just wanted to wrap my head around the entire situation.

I am all for making custom changes that enhance other builds. I don't necessarily believe we need to strictly adhere to production UO formulas anymore.

What exactly is the bug here overall? Can anyone find actual source information on UO.com for how the bard songs should stack/work with other masteries? Is our current implementation actually correct? I am having a hard time locating anything that is definitive. I don't want to make any changes there yet until I have a better idea of how it should work to begin with.

I need something other than opinions on how people think it should work before I move forward.

Should another player, playing a bard song, buff SDI on a character while another mastery that affects SDI is active on that other character? What I have found seems to point to no. If someone could find another link to a discussion on this topic, I would appreciate it.

 

[FireFly]

I don't plan on making any changes to death ray at this time. I just wanted to wrap my head around the entire situation.

I am all for making custom changes that enhance other builds. I don't necessarily believe we need to strictly adhere to production UO formulas anymore.

What exactly is the bug here overall? Can anyone find actual source information on UO.com for how the bard songs should stack/work with other masteries? Is our current implementation actually correct? I am having a hard time locating anything that is definitive. I don't want to make any changes there yet until I have a better idea of how it should work to begin with.

I need something other than opinions on how people think it should work before I move forward.

Should another player, playing a bard song, buff SDI on a character while another mastery that affects SDI is active on that other character? What I have found seems to point to no. If someone could find another link to a discussion on this topic, I would appreciate it.

Every source i checked also confirmed it should not apply to other masteries damage.
not sure if 2bards in party works here like intended bcs i read some posts about 2bards in party can stack on other players but not on another bard

explaining: party 1random character, 1bard run provo mastery, 2nd bard run peace mastery
if one bard cast provocation spellsongs it would affect caster + that 1 random character
2nd bard cast peace mastery songs - those stack with provo on that one random character but caster is only affected by his own songs.

 

[gbz]

I don't plan on making any changes to death ray at this time. I just wanted to wrap my head around the entire situation.

I am all for making custom changes that enhance other builds. I don't necessarily believe we need to strictly adhere to production UO formulas anymore.

What exactly is the bug here overall? Can anyone find actual source information on UO.com for how the bard songs should stack/work with other masteries? Is our current implementation actually correct? I am having a hard time locating anything that is definitive. I don't want to make any changes there yet until I have a better idea of how it should work to begin with.

I need something other than opinions on how people think it should work before I move forward.

Should another player, playing a bard song, buff SDI on a character while another mastery that affects SDI is active on that other character? What I have found seems to point to no. If someone could find another link to a discussion on this topic, I would appreciate it.

When I made this post, I wasn’t planning to ask for any changes to Death Ray — I simply used it to exemplify the damage I was dealing to the boss.
My actual point here is to discuss the availability of the Provocation Mastery buff, to determine whether it’s worth adding this skill to my other toons, and consequently improve build diversity overall.

 

[Dan]

When I made this post, I wasn’t planning to ask for any changes to Death Ray — I simply used it to exemplify the damage I was dealing to the boss.
My actual point here is to discuss the availability of the Provocation Mastery buff, to determine whether it’s worth adding this skill to my other toons, and consequently improve build diversity overall.

I was just responding to the other users' posts. I am still interested in finding out exactly how these buffs should work/stack with each other.