Major loot pack changes coming

[Meireffer]

I'll allow myself to bump this thread to discussion again.
What would players think about idea to increase amount of items in monsters that have risk of being raided in fel? Anyone remember what was happening on cora fel before lootpack changes went live? Very often it was impossible to even check all items because of someone wanting to slap us and take our loot. There were days when killing cora in fel required pvp backup waiting outside her room, just in case.
Currently? I'm not sure if anyone is even bothered to kill anything in fel when you can do exactly the same risk-free on tram.

I'm not talking necessarily about reversing lootpack to how it was before change, more like making those mobs half of what it was. Maybe it is easier to kill cora than exodus but exodus is risk free from what i know(?). Also killing cora takes still a nice chunk of 30 minutes solo. Especially now with pets "tweaked" and if you add risk of getting raided in fel? That would make it harder to get anything useful from her than exodus.

Just an idea. Would like to get other players opinion here. Please.

 

[FireFly]

I'll allow myself to bump this thread to discussion again.
What would players think about idea to increase amount of items in monsters that have risk of being raided in fel? Anyone remember what was happening on cora fel before lootpack changes went live? Very often it was impossible to even check all items because of someone wanting to slap us and take our loot. There were days when killing cora in fel required pvp backup waiting outside her room, just in case.
Currently? I'm not sure if anyone is even bothered to kill anything in fel when you can do exactly the same risk-free on tram.

I'm not talking necessarily about reversing lootpack to how it was before change, more like making those mobs half of what it was. Maybe it is easier to kill cora than exodus but exodus is risk free from what i know(?). Also killing cora takes still a nice chunk of 30 minutes solo. Especially now with pets "tweaked" and if you add risk of getting raided in fel? That would make it harder to get anything useful from her than exodus.

Just an idea. Would like to get other players opinion here. Please.

People even bother to kill Cora in Felucia this day?

 

[Magus Zeal]

When the shard-wide messages were taken down Fel became A LOT safer - so the risk/reward became a lot less balanced there. When Cora messages were popping up I would raid it often.

So right now the risk in fel is quite low due to its tremendous SIZE vs. the population. There is always content out there that will rarely get checked.

We need to make Fel smaller for the risk to be there. I suggest a more comprehensive sparkle path for patrols to "shrink" fel - this balances the risk aspect of increased loot. Others have suggested reducing the active champs in Fel. This is also a neat idea - make it so only 3 champs can be active at the same time or something.

The other alternative is what we have now - the bonuses in Fel were removed making the mobs there the same as Tram. This resulted in, as people have noted, next to no farming in Fel since the exact same mobs are available with ZERO risk.

I personally think risk is a core quality of UO and shouldn't be removed.

 

[Magus Zeal]

As for an approach to balance - I would start by creating a scalar "score" for each loot pack. Then compare that "score" to the mob's hitpoints as a first pass. A second pass would be to adjust for AI and Mob difficulty. I think with these two passes we can find a nice balance and I totally agree that this needs to happen.

This approach is akin to a statistical analysis by comparing a mean to a STDev.

 

[Magus Zeal]

I've converted Dan's list into a google sheet and shared it out for yall. I played around a bit and attempted to create a difficulty score based on DMG and HP. This doesn't work for any difficult AI mob (like Dark Father) but it does work for other mobs that are more generic and at the very least provides a basis of comparison.

Right now the big weakness i'd like to address is my method of a standardized "loot score". For instance, how much better is an (UltraRich,8) pack compared to a (SuperBoss,8)? The method I used basically assigned a value of "10" for each increment in loot pack (going from UltraRich to SuperBoss increases a loot score by 10), and I incremented the score by '1' if the number of items increases. Obviously this is very flawed

HeritageLootPackBalancing

docs.google.com

 

[cardeal]

the loot became easier and in my opinion far easier on the other hand why so many samurai and gargish stuff? you now find samurai empire armor and weapons on monsters you never thought so.. in one single loot you have 5 samurai items, 4 gargish, 1 bow, 1 kryss, 1 female armor.. evn though looks like it became easier the old loot package seemed more authentic and cloth items are very useful btw

 

[Meireffer]

Gargish and other armors have nothing to do with this topic. That was recent change which basically unlocked region restricted armors so they can be found everywhere in the game.

 

[cardeal]

all linked i guess.. loot pack changes and surely impacted the amount of gargish dropped

 

[Meireffer]

There was no lootpack change in months. That's why this topic was resurrected by me, to make some

Gargish and other armor changes were made here https://trueuo.com/threads/february-2021-patch-log.2928/post-16297 . Nothing related to lootpacks

 

[cardeal]

nice thanks for point that out .. xD wront topic tho but realistic comment will post there ..... shit cant post there ://///

 

[Mrriots]

So, this is my very popular opinion ;
I want it back to AoS style. when good stuff was rare and held a worth^^

Also remove imbuing. Thanks

 

[cardeal]

you can keep imbuing but go back to AoS style.. price held and items rare ..

 

[Dan]

Before there is too much speculation:

private static readonly Type[] m_ArmorTypes =
        {
            typeof(SkullCap), typeof(Bandana), typeof(FloppyHat), typeof(Cap), typeof(WideBrimHat), typeof(StrawHat),
            typeof(TallStrawHat), typeof(WizardsHat), typeof(Bonnet), typeof(FeatheredHat), typeof(TricorneHat),
            typeof(JesterHat), typeof(OrcMask), typeof(TribalMask), typeof(BearMask), typeof(DeerMask),
            typeof(ClothNinjaHood), typeof(Kasa),
            typeof(BoneArms), typeof(BoneChest), typeof(BoneGloves), typeof(BoneLegs), typeof(BoneHelm), typeof(ChainChest),
            typeof(ChainLegs), typeof(ChainCoif), typeof(Bascinet), typeof(CloseHelm), typeof(Helmet), typeof(NorseHelm),
            typeof(OrcHelm), typeof(FemaleLeatherChest), typeof(LeatherArms), typeof(LeatherBustierArms), typeof(LeatherChest),
            typeof(LeatherGloves), typeof(LeatherGorget), typeof(LeatherLegs), typeof(LeatherShorts), typeof(LeatherSkirt),
            typeof(LeatherCap), typeof(FemalePlateChest), typeof(PlateArms), typeof(PlateChest), typeof(PlateGloves),
            typeof(PlateGorget), typeof(PlateHelm), typeof(PlateLegs), typeof(RingmailArms), typeof(RingmailChest),
            typeof(RingmailGloves), typeof(RingmailLegs), typeof(FemaleStuddedChest), typeof(StuddedArms),
            typeof(StuddedBustierArms), typeof(StuddedChest), typeof(StuddedGloves), typeof(StuddedGorget), typeof(StuddedLegs),
            typeof(ChainHatsuburi), typeof(LeatherDo), typeof(LeatherHaidate), typeof(LeatherHiroSode), typeof(LeatherJingasa),
            typeof(LeatherMempo), typeof(LeatherNinjaHood), typeof(LeatherNinjaJacket), typeof(LeatherNinjaMitts),
            typeof(LeatherNinjaPants), typeof(LeatherSuneate), typeof(DecorativePlateKabuto), typeof(HeavyPlateJingasa),
            typeof(LightPlateJingasa), typeof(PlateBattleKabuto), typeof(PlateDo), typeof(PlateHaidate), typeof(PlateHatsuburi),
            typeof(PlateHiroSode), typeof(PlateMempo), typeof(PlateSuneate), typeof(SmallPlateJingasa),
            typeof(StandardPlateKabuto), typeof(StuddedDo), typeof(StuddedHaidate), typeof(StuddedHiroSode), typeof(StuddedMempo),
            typeof(StuddedSuneate),
            typeof(Circlet), typeof(GemmedCirclet), typeof(LeafTonlet), typeof(RavenHelm), typeof(RoyalCirclet),
            typeof(VultureHelm), typeof(WingedHelm), typeof(LeafArms), typeof(LeafChest), typeof(LeafGloves), typeof(LeafGorget),
            typeof(LeafLegs), typeof(WoodlandArms), typeof(WoodlandChest), typeof(WoodlandGloves), typeof(WoodlandGorget),
            typeof(WoodlandLegs), typeof(HideChest), typeof(HideGloves), typeof(HideGorget), typeof(HidePants),
            typeof(HidePauldrons),
            typeof(GargishLeatherChest), typeof(GargishLeatherLegs), typeof(GargishLeatherArms), typeof(GargishLeatherKilt),
            typeof(GargishStoneChest), typeof(GargishStoneLegs), typeof(GargishStoneArms),
            typeof(GargishStoneKilt), typeof(GargishPlateChest), typeof(GargishPlateLegs), typeof(GargishPlateArms),
            typeof(GargishPlateKilt), typeof(GargishNecklace), typeof( GargishEarrings ),
            typeof(GargishClothChestArmor), typeof(GargishClothArmsArmor), typeof(GargishClothKiltArmor), typeof(GargishClothLegsArmor)
        };
        public static Type[] ArmorTypes => m_ArmorTypes;

That is it. Every item listed once and with an equal chance. No cloth hats were removed and there is nothing preventing any more or less. Before certain things spawned en-mass.

 

[Magus Zeal]

I like the idea of region specific loot in general....might need a new thread though

 

[cardeal]

thanks for that Dan but seem very different from before the changes

 

[Dan]

@cardeal you know what I think I do see an issue where the hats are not spawning at all. Looking into that portion.

 

[cardeal]

yeah no hat dropped in around 2 hours farming and just to add more.. i think the drop rate of some items have been changed - i may be wrong as I have not checked the code but looks different to me.. an some very easy.. i never looted 4 items with 150 luck in 2 hours farming that also shows that somehow it become easier to have good mods

 

[Delvi]

Can loot packs be made proportional to the number of races on the shard- I feel like 2/3 of the stuff I get is garg only, and the other 1/3 is now elves only...