Felucca, Open Source Clients, and a leveling of the playing fields

[Dan]

Various "felucca only" settings are all controlled client-side.

Open Source clients are here to stay and they bring some unique challenges. It also shows how early UO handled an issue that other games realized was open to exploitation so simply removed it.

1. The biggest issue is collision. The mechanic that controls your character being blocked by other mobiles, in Felucca, is all handled client-side. Any attempt to block it server-side would lead to a really nasty rubber-banding effect. Maybe this is why other MMOs like WOW and even a lot of FPS actually do not prevent mobiles from running through/on top of each other? It is just too much data back and forth.

UO shipped it in the client. Now that the client holds no secrets, it can just as easily be removed. This allows some people to move through mobiles, while others with non-edited clients would still be blocked by their client-side checks. There is also no way for us to see it on our end.

What do I propose here? - Removing the "stam block" mechanic from Felucca.


2. The other issue is the map's "season" setting between Trammel and Felucca. (Also all controlled client-side, like most maps are in any game, and thus can be edited)

In Felucca there are various graves littering the ground. These are marked Impassable so you get stuck if you try to run into them. In Trammel, these graves do not exist or are replaced with flowers that are marked Passable. It is possible to force client-side "season" changes to control if you see or do not see this object.

What do I propose here? - If I can find a way to make Felucca leafless but with "pretty trammel land" that would be ideal. Otherwise, I am not sure at this time.

Thoughts?

 

[Joshthegreat]

Various "felucca only" settings are all controlled client-side.

Open Source clients are here to stay and they bring some unique challenges. It also shows how early UO handled an issue that other games realized was open to exploitation so simply removed it.

1. The biggest issue is collision. The mechanic that controls your character being blocked by other mobiles, in Felucca, is all handled client-side. Any attempt to block it server-side would lead to a really nasty rubber-banding effect. Maybe this is why other MMOs like WOW and even a lot of FPS actually do not prevent mobiles from running through/on top of each other? It is just too much data back and forth.

UO shipped it in the client. Now that the client holds no secrets, it can just as easily be removed. This allows some people to move through mobiles, while others with non-edited clients would still be blocked by their client-side checks. There is also no way for us to see it on our end.

What do I propose here? - Removing the "stam block" mechanic from Felucca.


2. The other issue is the map's "season" setting between Trammel and Felucca. (Also all controlled client-side, like most maps are in any game, and thus can be edited)

In Felucca there are various graves littering the ground. These are marked Impassable so you get stuck if you try to run into them. In Trammel, these graves do not exist or are replaced with flowers that are marked Passable. It is possible to force client-side "season" changes to control if you see or do not see this object.

What do I propose here? - If I can find a way to make Felucca leafless but with "pretty trammel land" that would be ideal. Otherwise, I am not sure at this time.

Thoughts?

Stam blocking is a very useful tool in Felucca in pvp, it can be the difference between someone running from a dump and standing for the 1 extra second to get the 2nd spell in a dump. Also it would be a buff to stealthers Bc they’d no longer have to worry about colliding with someone or something and getting revealed.

Seasons change seems like a fine idea to me

 

[Dan]

Stam blocking is a very useful tool in Felucca in pvp, it can be the difference between someone running from a dump and standing for the 1 extra second to get the 2nd spell in a dump. Also it would be a buff to stealthers Bc they’d no longer have to worry about colliding with someone or something and getting revealed.

Seasons change seems like a fine idea to me

It would still send the message of "moving over someone" in Felucca. That being said even on EA right now with a modded client you can remove it and run through people. It is not a matter of useful vs not, just a matter of how we handle it. Removing it would be the easiest way, otherwise I have no idea.

Again there must be a reason why other games do not do it. Server side checks do not work. Would = too much latency.

We can wish things were this way or another, or continue to keep our heads in the sand. There are people out there who can modify their clients and there is no way to detect it.

 

[Joshthegreat]

It would still send the message of "moving over someone" in Felucca. That being said even on EA right now with a modded client you can remove it and run through people. It is not a matter of useful vs not, just a matter of how we handle it. Removing it would be the easiest way, otherwise I have no idea.

Again there must be a reason why other games do not do it. Server side checks do not work. Would = too much latency.

We can wish things were this way or another, or continue to keep our heads in the sand. There are people out there who can modify their clients and there is no way to detect it.

I mean I haven’t seen it be an issue on osi nor on here tbh. I’m not saying it couldn’t be. But then again most players pvp in Luna anyhow. So it’d just be a unique feature.
I wonder how bad the rubberbanding would be via making stam-block server side Bc on osi rubberbanding happens a lot.
In my opinion a solution that preserves stam blocking is the best option Bc I think it’s a useful pvp mechanic. If it’s possible.

 

[BooshBooshBoosh]

Great ideas Dan! Removing the advantage of players using modded clients would help level the playing field.

 

[Magus Zeal]

Explains a lot. I knew you could turn trees to stumps and a few other things but I didn't realize you could eliminate map obstacles from the client side. Explains why some people never seem to get stuck haha.

**Runs off to mod client**

 

[Vander Nars]

yeah i think this is a another blow to my desire to play uo, i fucking hate these advanced clients as they literally ruin pvp and no one is willing to ban them.

 

[Magus Zeal]

Yeah for pvp its never fair unless everyone has access to all the same tools. It's supposed to be mastery of those tools that makes you better. Not having a tool that other people simply dont have. It's why I post resources on the website for FPS and such - when I first realized people could run smoother than me I loaded it and it was such a huge change.

On another note, UO had turned into sort of a "hackers" game a long time ago. Scripters and programmers long ago edged ahead of those who aren't as savvy. UO Outlands has the right idea in forcing people to use their own custom client.

Edit: It's mainly an issue for the PvP side - that small population of squeeky wheels. The majority would rather PvE. The needs of the many tend to prevail.

 

[Dan]

So I can not force "no foliage" and nothing else(graves) on the Felucca facet. I can however make it look like "Fall".

The ABOVE picture could be the new "Heritage Felucca" look. It has red/brown/green leaves and only a small number of flowers and no grave stones.
The below picture is compared to a normal Trammel.

I also added a new system message to let players also know they have "entered Felucca"

            if (Map == Map.Felucca && oldMap != Map.Felucca)
            {
                SendMessage("You have entered Felucca, a non-consensual PvP facet.");
            }

I went ahead and uploaded a copy of the "new Felucca" look on TC. Would appreciate feedback.

 

[Dan]

@sayago jumped on the TC and helped me test a little.

There were issues with the Fall season but another minor tweak, though making it look more like Trammel, without a lot of the flowers, it does fix the issue and make it an even playing field between CC/CUO/Orion.

You can jump on the TC and the use the public moongate to move between tram and fel Yew to see the difference.

You can also compare that to Heritage and see the various gravestones that others can pass right through, by simply using an assistant to force the season change.

 

[Dan]

The stam blocking may not actually be as much of an issue as I thought.

There are some server side protections.

 

[Wrenn]

Only real way to fix it is to make UO heritage have it's own client that you can control parameters server side, and allow no other clients but your own.

It would be a lot of work, however it would be future proof and you wouldn't have to heavily modify the games looks and mechanics to fit all these clients. You know right now that there will be a new thing in the future that will give advantage to whatever. Just nip it in the butt now, talk to Karasho from classicUO and mesh the 2 together where you have control server side.

The extremely simple signal flow would be something like ClassicUO talks to server, server says "we requires server side config file", ClassicUO says okay we use your config and not the local one, anything else deny connection. Have this built into your launcher and installed when people boot up the launcher if not found.

 

[Joshthegreat]

The stam blocking may not actually be as much of an issue as I thought.

There are some server side protections.

this is good news!!!

Post automatically merged: Dec 18, 2020

Only real way to fix it is to make UO heritage have it's own client that you can control parameters server side, and allow no other clients but your own.

It would be a lot of work, however it would be future proof and you wouldn't have to heavily modify the games looks and mechanics to fit all these clients. You know right now that there will be a new thing in the future that will give advantage to whatever. Just nip it in the butt now, talk to Karasho from classicUO and mesh the 2 together where you have control server side.

The extremely simple signal flow would be something like ClassicUO talks to server, server says "we requires server side config file", ClassicUO says okay we use your config and not the local one, anything else deny connection. Have this built into your launcher and installed when people boot up the launcher if not found.

100% agree, that's the best route to making everything how you want. Although some people dont like the look of classicuo and like Original UO's look, idk if there's a way to remedy that.

 

[Magus Zeal]

Orion has a lot of feature negotiation built-in - it even provides the code to implement these changes server side for different emulators. Stuff like "fast rotation" gives people an advantage if they dont have it on for instance.


The use cases can be for ambience (no light filters lets say) or for balance (disable fast rotation) or w/e. Its very granular

 

[Magus Zeal]

See that "Transparent foliage" option there. haha


Replace graphic is a filter on statics from the client - like replacing a tree that has been cut to a stump (good use) or replacing a tombstone to something invisible (bad use)

 

[Magus Zeal]

But at the end of the day a custom client ultimately is the solution....allbeit a very expensive one. Otherwise these will always be in the mix:

Stealth client

stealth.od.ua

GitHub - andreakarasho/ClassicUO: ClassicUO - an open source implementation of the Ultima Online Classic Client.

ClassicUO - an open source implementation of the Ultima Online Classic Client. - andreakarasho/ClassicUO

github.com

GitHub - crossuo/crossuo: CrossUO - Open Source Ultima Online Client

CrossUO - Open Source Ultima Online Client. Contribute to crossuo/crossuo development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

GitHub - VoxelBoy/MobileUO: MobileUO - the first mobile client for Ultima Online!

MobileUO - the first mobile client for Ultima Online! - VoxelBoy/MobileUO

github.com

And that cool 3D UO one...cant recall where that one is: