Heritage and Real Money Trading - What should our stance be?

Dan · Mar 18, 2018

I am curious what the players think the official stance should be in regards to real money trading (RMT) for Heritage items?

Basically RMT is something that happens in almost all MMOs. Players buy gold and items from other players, for real life money.

There is really little that can be done to enforce it as there is almost no way to really tell. It is not like I can pull up anyone but my own PayPal account and check.

So the other question is should it be something we add to the rules saying it is against our TOS? Thus making it against the rules to openly discuss in-game or on these forums? Or do we say we are okay with it? Thus allowing people to trade items on these forums for either in-game gold or actual money?

If it were to be allowed to be openly discussed on these forums or in-game just know that staff will 100% NOT GET INVOVLED in player disputes. It would be a "trade at your own peril" type of situation.

Necrodog · Mar 18, 2018

Should be ok. I see no issue with it. It's your pixels and your dollars, spend them how you want.

Only concern would be if there is some obscure law which makes it illegal or something if you don't own the copyright, but I am no legal expert.

RuffertoLux · Mar 18, 2018

While brand new, I'm inclined to say less rules are better. What someone chooses to do with their items or their money is up to them. Also, risk is on them.

Additionally, if someone wants to engage in RMT, it could create a side profession of "broker". I've seen people do that on other servers for a living. They broker trades as a 3rd party to ensure both sides are honest.

Dan · Mar 18, 2018

Necrodog said:
Should be ok. I see no issue with it. It's your pixels and your dollars, spend them how you want.

Only concern would be if there would be some obscure law which makes it illegal or something if you don't own the copyright, but I am no legal expert.

RuffertoLux said:
While brand new, I'm inclined to say less rules are better. What someone chooses to do with their items or their money is up to them. Also, risk is on them.

Additionally, if someone wants to engage in RMT, it could create a side profession of "broker". I've seen people do that on other servers for a living. They broker trades as a 3rd party to ensure both sides are honest.

Yeah for the most part THIS http://trueuo.com/index.php?help/terms/ covers me. Especially this part :
"You agree to not use the Service to submit or link to any Content which is defamatory, abusive, hateful, threatening, spam or spam-like, likely to offend, contains adult or objectionable content, contains personal information of others, risks copyright infringement, encourages unlawful activity, or otherwise violates any laws. You are entirely responsible for the content of, and any harm resulting from, that Content or your conduct."

I also tend to agree that, while some have plenty of time to spend in-game others do not. If someone wants to purchase an item from another player I do not see the harm in that. It is again all entirely on the parties involved. I only ask the question because if you head over to Stratics it seems to be a very big hot button issue with multiple perspectives and opinions. https://stratics.com/threads/rmt-discussion-moved-from-the-genesis-thread.396931/

Asil · Mar 18, 2018

Its illegal on osi, for whatever reason, to do money purchases for in game items. That being said, it literally does not stop half a dozen websites from popping up to purchase items for irl moneys. So even if you make it illegal, like you said, there is no way to track. So its ultimatly ur call om this, as i see nothing worng with it, but, if it is illegal, its still gonna happen.

Malaketh · Mar 19, 2018

I doubt that there is much RMT going on here...but... I think that if the server became pretty popular and there was any way for a bigger guild to monopolize the pscroll market then it could become the only real viable way to get pscrolls like what happens and happened on OSI shards...then... that is a huge problem.

I think that RMT has already clawed it's way too much into gaming. I believe that it has no place in gaming, despite knowing full well that we shall never be rid of it.

I am fairly strongly against any form of RMT.

xG00BERx · Mar 19, 2018

I love real money transactions, as someone who loves this game and often times would like a certain item and having some spare change that i'd rather throw at an item I want instead of a treat at the store or whatever I figure its pretty cool to let us do what we want with our money... Buying from other players should be completely on the players to figure out and what not, I dont understand why its a prpblem ... you can make it illegal but its going to happen anyways.. I know up to this point you've told me you were fine with it Dan and I have purchased somebody who quit UO for good gear for a pretty low price and hell its a lot better than the gear going to waste right?
I dont see a problem with it, even if somebody gets scammed I figure that is their fault.

Also, that is basically all you are doing with Buying donations to trade for items except that it includes Dan getting a cut of it.

RedBeard · Mar 19, 2018

Could actually bring some balance for some that can't invest as much time, I think it's positive.

Dan · Mar 19, 2018

Good discussion all around so far! This topic will be open for a while. I want as many people to chime in as possible.

For now RMT is "okay" because there has never been an actual rule on it.

As I stated above, not a lot of staff time would go into investigating RMT claims because it is not something I can actually, easily, tell. Maybe something just gave you everything before they quit? There is no way for me whatsoever, to know.

The real question will be if we allow the open discussion and posting, on these forums or our Discord, of Heritage items for sale for a real life currency. It could still go either way at this point.

xG00BERx · Mar 20, 2018

Dan said:
Good discussion all around so far! This topic will be open for a while. I want as many people to chime in as possible.

For now RMT is "okay" because there has never been an actual rule on it.

As I stated above, not a lot of staff time would go into investigating RMT claims because it is not something I can actually, easily, tell. Maybe something just gave you everything before they quit? There is no way for me whatsoever, to know.

The real question will be if we allow the open discussion and posting, on these forums or our Discord, of Heritage items for sale for a real life currency. It could still go either way at this point.

Sure why not? Right under the selling or buying threads individuals can say “Selling Orny 2$ USD or x amount of gold” or “Buying Minax sandals 10$ or x amount of gold”

Dan · Jul 5, 2018

http://trueuo.com/index.php?threads/heritage-shard-rules.85/
Real-Money Trading (RMT)

TrueUO and Heritage do not encourage nor discourage RMT. That being said any RMT is a "Buyer BEWARE" situation.
Staff will NEVER get involved or mediate RMT in any way shape or form.
TrueUO and Heritage are not responsible for losses sustained and you agree to this clause each time you access TrueUO.com or the UO Heritage shard.

Naxious · Jul 5, 2018

Regarding RMT - If anyone would like to buy/sell items for Real Cash via Paypal.. let me know I will happily be a middle man. I will only charge 1$ per transaction. So if you want to buy an item for 5.00$ from someone else. I will collect the item from them, Then you would need to send me 6.00$ via paypal. I will then send them 5.00$, and deliver your item upon request. PM on forums, or in game for paypal information or any questions/concerns. Thanks ^.^

(EoE - Brokerage now open!)

Lokai · Jul 9, 2018

Many MMORPGs have had issues with Real world trading $ for Game items, Game gold, even entire Accounts. The biggest concern I have is fraud, but your rules basically state it is a "Buyer beware" situation, so that mostly covers that. The other concern is the introduction of Botting. Players create alternate accounts (masking their IP using 3rd party DNS programs, if possible) and set up Bots, who collect resources and farm champs for gold. These bots then transfer their goods or gold to the buyer for $.

To be honest, I think some MMORPGs actually encourage it, because Bots are more profitable on Paid accounts than on free ones, due to better access to valuable resources and monsters, so these Botters have sometimes dozens of Paid accounts.

Xtal · Nov 12, 2018

I'm okay with it... Let the free market decide.

Rals · Dec 11, 2018

Players playing unnaturally worsens the gameplay. They'd be in areas getting in the way of other players for an outside reason. Normally, letting the real world affect the game world worsens the latter. P2W exemplifies this. Developers worsen the gameplay for free players in order to force them to pay for the standard or above-so gameplay. (Experienced gamers have a grasp of the standard gameplay.)

Some casual RMT is tolerable. It's like players who know each other IRL playing as a team to progress faster; it's unfair for the friendless player but gotta be accepted.

But so yeah, it can't turn into what the user Malaketh describes.

Dan · Dec 12, 2018

UO Heritage is definitely not pay to win I can assure you that. While we do have an in-game store the top tier items are found out in the world.

Noah · Dec 12, 2018

I hate, No wait, I despise PTW servers. This is not one of them! The items in the UOstore are basic items and do not give anyone any type of edge on this server.

Heritage and Real Money Trading - What should our stance be?

Dan

Staff Member

Necrodog

Neophyte

RuffertoLux

Newbie

Dan

Staff Member

Asil

Novice

Malaketh

Guest

xG00BERx

Journeyman III

RedBeard

Journeyman II

Dan

Staff Member

xG00BERx

Journeyman III

Dan

Staff Member

Naxious

Newbie III

Lokai

Neophyte III

Xtal

Apprentice

Rals

Newbie

Dan

Staff Member

Noah

Apprentice III

PLAY NOW

Heritage